i think you are doing harm to the liberalization for homosexuals it was illegal not that i would go historically and you're quite right homosexuals were persecuted which is quite wrong but now your i believe that you are taking an assault on what is the preserve of men and women and you are doing yourself no good because it will spring back and all the liberal work as we've done in the last thirty years will retrace this is very dangerous for you peter which i reply to that can i reply to yes yeah god godfrey. can i ask you to think of an analogy how would you feel if the government said to the black jewish or muslim communities you are banned from marriage but we will give you civil partnerships instead i don't see most compassionate honest decent people would accept that they would say that was unacceptable discrimination and that is why the national association for the advancement of colored people united states the main historic black civil rights

movement has said that for them the battle for gay civil rights is the knowledge of two the black battle for black civil rights they say well you will find the best you can really say it simulates the situation say that he was released i can tell you he will finish no i think life or you know you know nothing you made your point you made your point godfrey go ahead you made you major godfrey go ahead i can tell you peter peter tatchell to find that the most hostile group of people probably on the planet to homosexual marriage all the blacks and the baptists and the presbyterians so i think you've made a very bad case and it's not a good analogy at all the point is this what i'm i'm getting questions from teachers. who are roman catholics for example who are saying i am now going to have to i've seen the documents from the home office in the education department saying i'm going to have to teach people my children in the future that same sex marriage is just as valid as proper marriage and i'm afraid that they're deeply upset i

think peter tatchell being actually very selfish ok thomas go ahead in washington go ahead. i want i just i just i just i just want to walk down this this comparison of peter of bans on interracial marriage and bans on gay marriage look the bans on an interracial marriage were meant to keep the races separate marriage is about bringing men and women together and so any comparison of like the gay marriage lobby of grafting itself into the civil rights movement certainly in america is absurd on its face and if you look at it like most gay marriage advocates in america try to make this claim time and time again it simply doesn't work because the history of african-american people in america and around the well certainly america is in no way comparable the social experience of gays and again you know peter try to say that the idea that the gay marriage law is a powerful is absurd is absurd will come out i live in washington d.c. the three largest gay marriage organizations are funded ten times my little organization the president i support state supports gay marriage it's become the platform of the democratic party the idea that gays they gave advocates lack social

power is absolutely absurd anyone who says if you still make that claim i think people will see it just rings hollow peter lehner reply go ahead well i can say as someone who's campaign for equal marriage rights for everyone for forty years i can tell you until very recently it was a long lonely battle and i was personally vilified our movement and organization was constantly attacked ridiculed and ignored we had no a no power for most of the last forty years but signed fully a majority of people in britain the united states and i'm sure someone to america and have a pretty good quality come and go ahead. well first i don't i don't believe in the principle of equality means you have to treat different things the same now second of all if you're talking about this history of persecution come over to america and spend a day fighting as a pro-marriage advocate you know we have death threats we have all the things that you experience that doesn't make our cause right or your cause right and so i think

the best thing is actually to look at what marriage is that's the fundamental question and it's all part of the social and cultural changes marriage is unique because it serves the interests of children uniquely well and that's why it's worth protecting godfrey going and what about on marriage i don't god knows or infertile don't want to have children god forbid i had sexual couples who are in search of i think i don't yeah but even but even if that's that's only if they respond that to their go to god and how it's going to go couple and it's good i'm really going to the and give that child a million of us really is is that the free the freedom of giving the freedom. laws government sponsorship for homosexual couples to marry is actually going to detract on the u.k. a little awkward age old but you know done about the american law which will go to the european court of human rights and you will find that priests. rabbis will be in breach of the law if they refuse to marry same sex couples and i

say again we have seen things that have gone far too far i was a big supporter of the liberalization of the laws when it came to homosexuality years and years ago and peter tatchell i first of it was done a first class told him bringing away this discrimination which was quite wrong but it's now the pendulum has swung too far and you're bringing prejudices back against your own state believe me a big mistake. peter go ahead and godfrey that's not the idea that i'm going to remember there is is that the majority of people in britain and the united states support marriage equality and support for the civil and human rights of gay people is increasing thomas and quite rightly peter it's not it well first well first of all you know we've had sixty million american people america vote for on marriage and a vast majority of always wanted to protect marriage i want to try to rephrase the word god for it was saying to him maybe peter will understand it this way when

people like we all gay people say that they want marriage to be a stronger institution which is why they want to join it well there's a lawful lot of civil society churches communities government that all is built to support marriage because marriage is an easy it's not easy to get men and women to commit to raising the children they make with their bodies but that's what civil society has been doing in a healthy society does that it is difficult and gay marriage makes it difficult for all of civil society to enshrine that value that children deserve a mom and a dad and that men and women should stick around and love and raise the children they make with their bodies and the distraction of gay marriages made it impossible for things like the catholic church for things like political civil government to to to give that message and so when you say oh well gay marriage won't hurt anyone it already has because now when i try to say a child deserves both a mom and dad you jump and say that's against equality and so you can actually see already and then that the more that gay marriage were to be accepted and put and try to the law the more difficult it would become for the rest of us to communicate this life saving propagating message for the next generation ok peter i'm going to

give the last word of the problem go ahead ahead go. most gay people or gay couples who want to get married do not have children and will not have children so the argument about children is irrelevant as we have seen heterosexual couples who are infertile who don't want to have children they are allowed to get married so let's leave that one to one side but i want to just finish with this basic fundamentals relevant then don't. we if you're around when you know why you don't tom you have been so rude throughout this entire i've never interrupted you once you've been talk to me about twenty times just please hold your tongue it is very important it is very very important that in a democratic society we are all equal before the law there should be no discrimination against anyone. run out of time fascinating discussion many thanks indeed to my guests in london and in washington and thanks to our viewers for watching us here r.t. see you next time and remember crosstalk.

government no longer represents the baby. the people are going to take such as. we. please to traditional flew. away or the first place to.

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